Oct 31, 2005

A Just World?

NOTE;THE ITALICIZED TEXT BELOW IS A RE- POST OF A 2005 ARCHIVE ARTICLE. IT IS HOWEVER TIMELESS AND ONCE AGAIN, CURRENT EVENTS HAVE MADE ITS THE SUBJECT MATTER VERY APPROPOS ;PLEASE TAKE SOME TIME TO READ THE TWO LINKED ARTICLES, THEY MAY CHANGE THE WAY YOU THAT YOU THINK ABOUT SOME VERY IMPORTANT IMPORTANT MATTERS THAT AFFECT OR IWILL AFFECT SOMEONE THAT YOU CARE ABOUT


I just read two very interesting articles on the NATURE of justice, and something called cognitive dissonance -dont be put off by the lofty tone of it, it's a fairly a simple concept;
They help to explain why so many people are apathetic or judgemental of people who have been hurt or victimized by life events outside of their control. This includes of course victims of violent crime, who have been brutalized first by the crimes committed against them and then all too often doubley injured by a lackluster at best cruel at worst judicial "system."ThE very same they once undoubtedly once innocently assumed would be "THERE" if and when god forbid they ever should need to rely upon it. This includes institutuions such as the judicial court AND the law enforcemnt system, local social services, as well as down at the community level where the presumed support can fall cruelly short of what the victim aver anticipated. Indeed this profound lack of supoort combined with an element of cold hearted judgement-not of the perpetrator but of the victim-for somehow having "brought the tragic events upon themselves'-this is the fait de compli within the post traumatic stress experience, and indeed can be the final emotional insult which renders the victim unable to heal and thus stuck in an awful place.
I know of this.

Now altho this syndrome is common with victims of violent and or sexual crimes it certainly isnot exclusive to traumtic acts of violence caused by ones fellow man.; Weve seen it very
recently with hurricane katrina, victims...
( ie "they deserve what happens to them, they should of left..sooner, its their own fault' yadda ya

We also see it a lot with domestic and partner violence crime- before reading this article I had actually given it a name I called it the "pack of hyena effect": As a former victim of an violence crime I couldnt help but notice a very disturbing tendency among all kinds of otherwise "good" people to gang up, and do thier best to find the victim to blame somehow, for having been victimized and/or treated in any unjust manner.-I was also horrified to note that once someone was victimized in an especiallyovert way, there seemed to be a free for all of sorts for further victimization of that person, as if they were now up for grabs for our very worst behaviors, as permanent victims in effect. Marked.

These were terrible truths about human nature to be encountering after having just survived a violent crime, this I will tell you. I became emotionally and spiritually devastated more by the aftermath of the crime, than by the crime itself, which plainly speaking was horrific.

As past victim of these behaviors,(five years ago march) I was heartened and even somewhat vindicated by reading about what turns out are well known syndromes- I much prefer a rational understanding of how people could behave so badly towards someone who has just been terribly brutalized ,for the only other option was a floundering belief that people-and thus the world, must be inherently evil-For someone who is an idealist at heart, this was very nearly a kind of death.

Please Read these important articles, they will undoubtedly change the way you think and feel about victimization and Justice. The second link brings you to a page and its the 2nd post from the top of that page re PTSD -not the first post re hiv.

http://www.scu.edu/ethics/publications/iie/v3n2/justworld.html

http://www.respectfulofotters.blogspot.com/

5 comments:

Anonymous said...

Hi, Laurel!

I'll try to read the articles some other time. I've long thought a lot of people don't want to be concerned about others because they aren't as "substantial" as they appear to be.

Example: Look at someone who's big; he/she is presumed to be physically strong and more often than not it is small wirey people who are physically strong.

Or, look at so-called professional people -- we assume they are knowledgeable but often the people who work for them know as much, such as nurses working for doctors.

Carolyn

MisAnDrope said...

I read the same article not long ago, and it helped me to understand how people could work so hard to hurt other people, and deprive them of their basic rights. -It is because they are blocking out inconvenient facts.

Facts like how much men are being persecuted in this country:

Like the right to trial that was taken away by VAWA, which allows women to file ex-parte orders without any evidence, and have their husbands thrown out of their houses.

Or the laws and systems that give women custody in 90% of the cases.

Or the Bradley Amendment which makes it near-impossible for a man to get a reduction in alimony or child support when he loses his job, and revokes due process for men, requiring states to seize assets and income from men when they fall behind on their payments - no matter what the reason, and forbade judges from forgiving destitute dads their support-related debts no matter what the reason for their falling behind.

Or the Deadbeat Parents Punishment Act which makes it a felony to move to another state if you owe back child support, irregardless of your financial situation, and requires women on welfare to identify SOME man as a father, so that he can be persued for support - this latter resulting in men who never fathered a child finding themselves arrested for back support payments that cannot be forgiven.

Or the new and improved version of VAWA, which allocates billions to women's shelters and nothing to abused men and children, who together comprise 50% or more of the victims of abuse.

Yes it helped me to understand how people could support these things, and then I read your post to Men's News Daily, and you left your calling card there, and I decided to come here and see what you were about a bit more. And here you are, reading the same articles I am, but with a very different take on the issues of Men's Equality.

And I love what Anonymous posts here - Look at someone big (like men) people presume them to be strong (or in charge) but more often than not that may not be the case. -Like men, who when they appear in a court with a women, lose essentially all their rights.

I am also a little jealous of you. You can put your own name on your blog, and present yourself AS YOURSELF to the world. My opinions, -that the court system is baised, that men are being deprived their rights, would get me punished in court. Yes, my very right to free speech has been infringed. A significant number of men have been jailed and/or otherwise persecuted for speaking out against family court judges, and I cannot 'afford' to lose contact with my children by being jailed. Having already lost all of my assets and all my income to the system, my children is all I have left. -And I am lucky. Most men don't even get that. Remember, 90% of the time, the wife gets custody. 90% of men get to see their kids every other weekend, if at all -if the woman allows it to happen. Turn that one around and stick a different gender on that one, and see how it fits.

I am sorry you suffered so much in your life Laurel. I pray that the rest of your life is better, and that you encounter some truly good men. But men have a right to be treated equally with women, not presumed abusers and deadbeats until proven otherwise.

We don't ALL abuse women, you know.

Kind Regards,

-M

Manny Romero said...

Hey Misanthrope.... suck it up you wuss and be a man, in the classical sense that nature cast us, as providers and protectors. The genealogy of the human race as a social and cultural animal has been brought forward largely due to the role of woman as the custodians of our progeny. While the men folk were traversing land and sea be it for hunting food or for resource enrichment or standing watch guarding the gate to beat back the encroaching horde, the women were charged with seeing to the cohesiveness of the social order centering around the rearing of the children, the lifeblood and very breath we need to ensure the survival of the unique species that we are.

Curious as to how this structure not only holds together but also self propagates? I offer that any should travel to the high southwest and plan a week or two poking around the Hopi reservation. As a tourist, there are many aspects of their rich cultural history for one to see provided by these proud people as exhibits to the outside world. Yet the most fascinating and well preserved are the people themselves and the identified self that they have carried like some thread woven uninterrupted through the fabric of time taken back to the virtual beginnings of their peoples and, as they believe, all people.

With respect and a show of reverence, and polite conversation with shopkeepers, at local diners, perhaps a social gatherings publicly advertised, powwows, flea markets, the like, one will meet people-kind of the kindest kind. And should best fortune bestow itself, a glimpse into their family lives may be taken.

They continue the practice from long, long ago up to today that the women raise the children. The children's time is mostly occupied with the women of the family, mother, aunts, older sisters and grandmothers as they care for them, and school them in the oh so important intangibles starting with the oral history of family, tribe and the world as they have come to understand it as a race, as well as lessons involving respect for others and their selves. At age twelve the boys come of age and are, with ceremony, taken by the elder men through initiation into manhood. Now in turn the men of the clans impart lessons which, basically speaking, involve the skills and rituals critical to community survival-essentially the providing for and, if need be, the protecting of, the women, children, elderly and the infirmed. They are charged with the future welfare of their people. Primarily instilled as an obligation, this becomes ingrained as duty to the men of such societies.

While in the end the bond between the men and the women in their lives, and thusly all women, is held as an instinct most visceral to the civilizing of humans.

Imagine me, a man raised in New York City by a third generation immigrant family whose historical roots all but dried up, being so privileged as to witness such as is the seed of the foundations of human family.

I spend little time trying to decode the female psyche. To try would lead me on a fruitless search, without a map, or guiding star, or at the very least, an inkling of a desired destination. Any knowledge that I posses of woman's inherent role as one half the human race, has come to me by observing second hand or through conjecture purely on my part. So here within I make no attempt analyze this position from the perspective of the fairer sex.

I am a man and therefore stake, as my right, the ability to comment on judgments formed, from a lifetime so far, of experiences and observations I have culled on what it means to be a man and a man's role in our society.

A real man behaves himself. REGARDLESS should a man have the conscious bearing toward rude, distasteful, negligent or even criminal action, behavior as such is not justifiable. There's no excuse to slough those murky grounds and liability should be especially exacted if a man treads there with knowledge of this beforehand.

A real man is not a burden on his society. REGARDLESS where our casted lot has sorted us, the real man stands shoulder to shoulder with his fellows stoking the coal-fed fires in the engine room heat, with comraderie as our water ration.

A real man does not foist his dysfunctions, if befell by them and at their mercy, onto those weak, or not, around him. A real man realizes that should he lose the moral lodestone a man must be to his family then high has come the time that either he toils to regain it, with the help of others if need be, or suffer the consequences and remove himself from their presence, monetary support notwithstanding- the cognizant act of fathering children precludes a man from avoiding his financial support.

However if he cannot be a positive role in the upbringing of the children, then he has no business being a part of their lives. To be otherwise would be self-servicing, destructive and abusive to his offspring, especially if malice is a motivation toward the mother from whom she did bear.

Now, naive at times as I can be, I know well enough that many disastrous situations of this genre evolve from failings of both parents, challenging many men to set examples both stalwart and honorable. Even in these cases the man is duty bound for he entered into a relationship and eventually agreed to found a family.

If it were, that the woman was not ready or able emotionally, the man remains a decisive role in a decision that should never be taken lightly. A real man does not bring offspring into unstable surroundings.

Of course, a proclamation such as this applies also to the other side of the aisle. For any woman who, for procreation purposes, takes a man that lacks the qualities essential to functionally fulfill the remaining lifetime role as father of her children, she bears responsibility for the suffering, emotional and otherwise, that may evolve. Though rereading this paragraph I am made aware that against my earlier claim indeed I have dared a comment on a thought to the shoulds and shouldn'ts of womanhood. Hastily, I beat a path back to my familiar wood.

The bottom line is that as men we have not only a responsibility but a choice as well. Once we've made the choice along these lines, the mantle of new responsibilities enjoins; responsibilities that have been struck into the genetic make-up of our social fabric as I have outlined above.

If you Mr. Misanthrope truly are a real man and you got screwed by the system so much so to be cast into your misanthropic mire, then I would stand by you my fellow, and bouy you up with a forearm grasp and then champion your cause by your side should a request by you be offered. As we all have felt the irony of the cosmos when bad things happen to good people.

But undeniably, the nature of things stands that good people, truly good people, ones who make virtue and humility their watchword afford themselves rare opportunity for bad things to fall on them.

Which is not you, Misanthrope. You are not a good man, or a real man for that matter, and any affiliation, I could ever imagine we would have would be a vigilant watch over you as a safeguard to those you may someday try to hurt. Reading between your lines I see a bitter small man coming through, who, out of an indignant ego and petty pride has chosen to bail your bile laden bilge onto the purifying glow of Ms. Chasing Normal, this woman who first was brutalized at the hands of some worthless piece of human detritus.

Surviving that, she was then subjected to victimization once again through the court system as only imagined from the countless Domestic Violence cases bargained out. Cases in these courts bargained out to the extent that crime as well as punishment have been watered down to nearly nothing at all.....nothing at all compared to the mountainous magnitude of pain, physical disability, trauma, and lifetime suffering and, as in many cases, violent death to follow.

Cases bargained out by feckless prosecutors and equally amoral defense attorneys most times cronies from the same bar association, making deals over cocktail lunches and who-knows-what-other-favor-swappings going on, all heard before a judge from, once again, the same bar.

It's attitudes like yours that find themselves into every aspect of our society. An attitude that when, midway thru another trial of so many cases, with the victim mustering every strength to face her cowardly and immoral and many times sociopathic attacker, a gunshot heard from somewhere on the street outside the courthouse, prompts the words "Sorry honey, we gotta go and catch us a real criminal, besides you don't look that bad any more, time has healed your face fine. Case Dismissed."

The real horror lies in that gunshot heard. Too often do we hear about the gunshot coming from "the estranged acquaintance" exacting his revenge upon release from the system.

Who of us will have the courage to protect and defend our woman?

I, as a man am appalled and deeply troubled by this bellwether of our society. Besides the full weight of every ounce of intellect and moral fiber I have thrown to stand in support of VAWA and those working to rid our culture of the seething apathy toward domestic violence, I stand ready at the gate, with an eye on you, and your kind and a cell phone in hand dialing 911 to protect the women, children, and any of my fellow citizenry who might fall prey to you predators infused throughout our society. And if necessary I can root around the floor of my hall closet for my old Louisville Slugger.

Your type raises all kind of alarms for me. You dare air your connivances masquerading as intelligent discourse from a pity pulpit, on a page where someone is trying to rouse herself from the waking nightmare into which she was plunged with intentions solely to right the wrongs visited on some many innocents. Ms. CN is threatening no one except the likes of you cowards who feel personally attacked by those seeking justice from the legal system and a willing acknowledgement from society. To those who genuinely engage in trying to make this world a better place, I welcome Ms. Chasing Normal's blog and applaud her tenacity.

The public seems in a unified cry to rid the streets of thieves and drug dealers and criminals especially of the violent type. But where lies the difference that lets charlie punch clock or eddie the executive who comes home from work, smiling and waving to the neighbors, to walk scott-free when behind closed doors he beats his wife-or merely threatens her with violence. This is terrorism of the domestic kind.

Is this the ilk to which you belong??? misanthrope???

Possibly the "ex-parte" you have become enlightened of, was visited on you, probably as your ex was seeking to protect herself potential or further harm.

She wants you out? Then get out. Do something decent and exhibit some dignity. It's called "not making a bad situation any worse". Compared to the beatings, it's a lump no real man would complain about taking.

This would explain why you and your buddies over at the Men's News Daily have raised such hue in mounting baseless attacks defending your stance against the VAWA bill. Where do you get the cojones to claim after reading the Justice article that the principles involved; i.e. victims, were so misguided to not see that the real victims were the likes of you. If I may reiterate to you my opening comment to you..."you wussy..." Grow a set of balls. I'd be embarrassed to say, let alone post for the whole wide web to read, comments as you did, should one day occur I fall ill with fever and suffer permanent delirium.

Do you feel persecuted as the Bradley Amendment chases you down for unpaid support even when employment is terminated? Well be a man and get a job. If the family unit was still intact would you come home with the words "Sorry honey I lost my job, so I'll just sit around being unable to help with the bills..."? Damn not you wouldn't. The real man protects his family and grabs a pick and shovel, or dust mop and toilet brush or an apron or spatula or all three, possibly in one day to provide for his family.

If not, well, then he should be out on his ass so that all legal mechanism can be brought to bear forcing these types to live up to the commitments agreed by them decided the day to spread their seed. Except in extreme cases, of which were not talking here, there's no reason for falling behind. Read that as pursued for support, not 'persued', you moron.

With hubris you claim being helped to understand....because inconvenient facts are conveniently left out, blah, blah, blah…..inane prattle…... You claim as fact billions allocated to women's shelters' but nothing to abused men and children, although they comprise 50% or more of the victims abused. Site your sources to backup these ridiculous claims. Many women fleeing an abusive house take flight to shelters with their children.

Do yourself a favor big man, crawl out of that sensory depravation tank you call your life and volunteer at one of the many shelters I’m sure to be found within your locale. What you will see there in one evening alone will change you forever. But I am remiss in making this suggestion for they would never let a scumbag like you have the address to on of these shelters, let alone allow you near one. While the policy line would be to protect them from you, when the lights go out,… you know that old strength in numbers thing.

The VAWA bill covers all domestic violence, men and women; though I know that renaming the bill Violence Against People Act would not be enough to prevent a malcontent such as you from spewing your hate veiled as cogent comment.

With all that said......

......while the world is full of creeps like you, and never is the occurrence I would dignify the tripe you've written with a response, it was the profile of the abuser you really are that leapt off the page at me as my eyes read across the last two paragraphs and your closing comments. In typical abuser form, once the verbal abuse and vilification complete, the abuser reverts to the soft pedal approach, with veiled words of feigned assurances, to lure his victim in again, should a guard go up and he starts to lose her.

You are sorry for her suffering??? You pray for her???? Kind regards???? You sicken me with your meaningless platitudes. Did you think you saw another damaged women you thought you could run your game on? Or perhaps you were trying to salvage from the scrap heap a few shreds of dignity in attempts to restore a sense of credibility among any other passing viewers? I’m sure many, including Ms. CN, can see right through to what is seriously wrong with you. What worries me is there are many people out there unable to recognize you as the evil-entity with no redeeming value that you are- they that number as possible potential victims.



Whoa, whoa, whoa……. And at this point I ‘ve just returned from your cross-link to Men’s News Daily and in stunned anger read your reply to Ms. O’Keefe’s heart-as-well-as-gut wrenching experience to which you, you sick mother fucker, mocked in your reply. And the class act that she seems to be called it as she saw it –an utter lack of human decency- and refused comment any further.

Which is not the case with me and my kind; us, the reemerging real men in this world. My friends and many co-workers stand all together on as this as a topic we share liberally and often with all the men we meet. More than reinforcing respect for the women in our lives, we stress the importance of remaining silent no longer if we hear, see or even suspect there is violence toward the people in our lives.

A no account piece a crap like you spouting twisted hate in some bar within the presence of myself or the men I know, would find himself vigorously persuaded to reconsider the next words he chose to speak. It’s a free world to think what you want but when you come out of corner bringing your demented discourse into the public forum, you’ve become fair game. And if intelligent prodding convinces to no avail, then cheerfully I would invite you to step into alley behind the bar, so we may see how you hold up to having your head smashed repeatedly against a solid wall. And my defense?, why I would present as Exhibit A your illuminating alliteration.

A wise man you are keeping shielded your identity. You wouldn’t want to let to your friends and employer the misogynist you really are. Then known to all you would be the pariah you should be. I’m sure talking stupid goes over big with your inane horse scrota buddies at the Men’s News Daily. However, this, as well as your attempts to parley intelligentsia while “away from home”, reveal the insipid shallow child you are to be. For the future, reserve your drivel for your blog only so that we in the sphere can avoid it at all cost and snuff out your vile vitriol with determined disinterest.


Don’t resent by bluntness. Women who were raised in abusive households tend themselves to go with abusive men, seeing victimization as normal relations. I would like to believe you would see the sheer fallacy of your thinking if one day God forbid, Ms. O”Keefe’s story was told to you by a woman in your life that you proclaim to care about. But that is expecting too much from someone who clearly comes across as an abuser himself. Indeed which is why the world needs my kind of men to protect these women from the likes of you.

In closing, misanthrope, on your knees you should fall and beg forgiveness to all mankind for your callous, rude and insensitive rant, as well as such misguided conviction.

While my voice I raise in praise for this brave soldier Laurel Makepeace O’Keefe. She is woman for all intents and purposes who has not merely survived but emerged only stronger, despite horrific abuse and lingering suffering, while dispelling damage along the way. With intelligence accompanying as her hand maiden she has taken up as standard bearer with her voice speaking out the survivor’s tone.

MisAnDrope said...

I very much disagree, Manny, with your lame screed. You address little or none of what I write, while liberally peppering your diatribe with hatred and names. I suggest re-reading what I wrote, and going farther, actually investigating the actual usages of the ex-parte order in court today. Do some research. You seem intelligent, you certainly can write at length. Now howabout listening, and learning, instead of just ranting. There is another side to this argument - a side whose basis is in equality and justice, not hatred of everyone of the male gender.

-M

Laurel Makepeace O'Keefe said...

What do you bet that "misandrope' had to get out his thesauraus for retort to Mr Romero? Ummmm..face it misanthrope-BTW OUR MISPELLING OF YOUR SCREENNAME IS DELIBERATE-it is called I-R-O-N-Y..Look up MISANTHROPE and iM SURE YOULL GET IT...